Regular readers will know that William Mager is a deaf director, film maker and contributor to the The Limping Chicken. Our Editor Charlie Swinbourne caught up with him this week to talk about his new job. You can ask your questions too as William is on stand-by today to answer your questions in the comments.
Hi William, tell us what you’re up to?
I’m the new Series Producer at See Hear. I’m only the second deaf person in its 33 year history to lead the programme since Terry Riley stepped down as Series Editor in 2008.
My role is basically to decide, with the Executive Producer and Forward Planning Producer, what content goes into the programmes we make in a series – and then how to make that happen within budget, on schedule and with as little pain and suffering as possible to produce the best programme we can!
I have to wear a lot of different hats in the job. On the editorial side of things, along with the forward planning team I help come up with ideas for the series and then decide which ones we’re going to run with . I decide who is going to work on those stories and then I oversee the research and scripting, make sure the filming is scheduled at the right time, then view the edits and give feedback, monitoring the programmes all the way through the final dub and subtitling to the online finish.
Then there’s the budgeting, the staffing, dealing with editorial and legal issues, dealing with compliance paperwork, writing the billings for each programme… I think it’s fair to say my days can be quite busy at times. That’s why I start checking work emails at 8am each day.
Luckily, I have a really talented team of deaf and hearing production coordinators, researchers and directors to work with – all of whom work really hard to tight turnarounds and even tighter budgets. Most importantly we have Caroline O’Neill, the Forward Planning Producer who constantly finds new stories, whilst keeping existing stories going so that we always have something to film at any given time. Without her I think things might fall apart pretty quickly.
What are your ambitions for the programme?
At the moment I’m just an interim manager, like Rafael Benitez at Chelsea – I’ve taken over the last 3rd of the series from the outgoing SP Sarah Tavner, who’s done a great job so far. If I can get through to the end of this series with my sanity intact, and the powers that be think I’ve done a good job, I’d love the opportunity to do a full series next year.
That would be when I could try and influence changes in how we make the programme, and think about different ways of doing things.
How will it change this series
Some of the changes have already been made. See Hear is no longer ‘boxed’. It’s a full screen programme again, and the in vision signer appears against a full screen background. Some viewers didn’t like the ‘boxed’ format of See Hear of the last few years, so hopefully people will respond positively to that change.
There are some other changes that you might spot – the title sequence might be a bit different.
We’ve got some great stories coming up this series.
Hard hitting topics like mental health, drinking, the decline in teachers of the deaf; alongside some more thought provoking progs like a studio debate on cochlear implants, an update on the exciting research that’s being done into the deaf brain; and some quirky profiles on a deaf woman who runs a cat spa, a nonagenarian motoring enthusiast, and more.
I think it’s fair to say that there’s something for everyone in the programme.
Tell us about your history of working on See Hear?
I’ve put in a lot of years on See Hear! I first started as a researcher in 2003, helping other directors out with their films. Then I picked up a camera and started self shooting (badly) for deaf news segments on the programme. I then left the BBC to work for VEE TV as an insert director, returned to See Hear as an AP. I moved on from See Hear to Watchdog, The Culture Show, Crimewatch, and other mainstream progs within the BBC.
Then the last couple of years I worked as a Producer/Director on See Hear out of Birmingham and Bristol, and am now acting up as a Series Producer.
When I look back on my time as a researcher and director on See Hear, I’m really grateful for the opportunities I was given by Terry Riley and by others to make films, and to get the training and development opportunities that enabled me to get to this point. I’m hoping I can do the same for the next generation of deaf people who want to work in the media. I’ve already seen the likes of David Hay and Erika Jones flourish at See Hear, which is really nice to see.
What’s it like working away from home?
Now that See Hear is based in Bristol, I work away from my London home four days a week. I live out of a hotel room round the corner from the office. I don’t like being away from my family – in fact on Wednesdays I start to really miss my wife and son – but this just makes my weekends more precious than ever before. And I feel really lucky and privileged to be able to do this job, and to have my name on those end credits as Series Producer.
You’re also a filmmaker, how is making SH different to directing dramas?
Factual television is harder to make than drama. With drama you control every aspect of production from the people you put in front of the camera, the size of the shot, every single word that people say… with documentaries there are a lot of unknowns – and the story you set out to film is often very different from the story you end up with!
There are so many factors which are out of your control, but sometimes those mean you end up with an even better film than you expected. There are times when it can be very stressful though – and I always try to make it less so for the team whenever I can.
Why do we still need See Hear?
Deaf and hard of hearing people are under-represented on television and elsewhere. Their concerns, their issues, their day to day lives aren’t addressed in the mainstream, and while we’re seeing a growing number of deaf people in drama and on other factual programmes, this still lags some way behind other minority groups.
For 33 years, See Hear’s recorded and represented the lives of deaf and hard of hearing people – their battles, their campaigns, their day to day lives. Whether speaking, signing, deafened, deafblind, CODA or hard of hearing, See Hear’s tried to give them a voice. Deaf people in other countries round the world look to See Hear as an inspiration, and try to emulate it in their own broadcasting.
At a time when services, funding and general quality of life for deaf and hard of hearing people are being gradually eroded, I feel that there’s a need for a programme like See Hear now more than ever, to continue giving a minority its voice.
At the same time, people shouldn’t take See Hear for granted. So use the programme. Interact with us through email, facebook, talk about us on twitter. Tell us what we’re doing right. Tell us what we’re doing wrong. We’re listening.
How can people watch the next series?
We’re back on Wednesday 18th September at 10.30am on BBC Two. We’ll be on iPlayer too, and the repeat is the following week after midnight. Check your listings.
You can find out more about the content of each programme by checking http://www.bbc.co.uk/seehear and looking at our facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/#!/bbcseehear
William is answering questions in the comments today – please feel free to put your questions to him about See Hear and allow a little time for moderation (but only a little).
Questions put by Charlie Swinbourne. Charlie Swinbourne is the editor of Limping Chicken, as well as being a journalist and an award-winning scriptwriter. He writes for the Guardian and BBC Online, and as a scriptwriter, pennedMy Song, Coming Out and Four Deaf Yorkshiremen.
The Limping Chicken’s supporters provide: sign language interpreting and communications support (Deaf Umbrella), online BSL video interpreting (SignVideo), captioning and speech-to-text services (121 Captions), online BSL learning and teaching materials (Signworld), theatre captioning (STAGETEXT), Remote Captioning (Bee Communications), visual theatre with BSL (Krazy Kat) , healthcare support for Deaf people (SignHealth), theatre from a Deaf perspective (Deafinitely Theatre ), specialist lipspeaking support (Lipspeaker UK), Deaf television programmes online (SDHH), language and learning (Sign Solutions), BSL interpreting and communication services (Lexicon Signstream), sign language and Red Dot online video interpreting (Action Deafness Communications) education for Deaf children (Hamilton Lodge School in Brighton), and legal advice for Deaf people (RAD Deaf Law Centre).
Andy. Not him, me.
August 21, 2013
Well,well,well…now you’re the boss!
You’ve done very well at the BBC and they are by no means the easiest people to work with. Congratulations. I’m sure it must be very stressful though, take care of your health.
I used to do a little bit of freelancing with local BBC presenters, way back in the 80’s and we collaborated a bit to cover large sports events. I always wanted to get a regular job with them but opportunities down this way are very rare. The local office is in Plymouth. Seymour Road, near the Deaf Club!
Things I don’t like about See Hear. Well you closed the bluddy forum! We had a lot of fun in there and also helped a lot of people. As people with a communication problem, I respectfully suggest, Me Lud that we should get a Reasonable Adjustment, and a forum. And police it with a rod of iron.
The programme… I have always thought that the introductory music is not really Deaf music. Deaf people like loud thumping, easy to follow tunes. I am sure that one of your musical geniuses will rise to that challenge if asked. If hearing people don’t like it, well it’s not meant for them is it?
Content: It tries to be “all things to all men”. The problem with this is that sometimes it is also “jack of all trades and master of none”. I appreciate that magazine programmes suffer from a lack of dramatic material but there are possibilities.
For example politics. I would like to see See Hear become more involved in commenting on deaf issues.
Get a few MP’s and other deafness notables up there and give them a Paxo style grilling. 5 minutes with Paxo Mager. There are big changes going on in deaf politics, why ignore them? Of course you’d have to maintain the famed neutral stance … but with a deaf agenda. Deaf Hardtalk!
For example what about a piece about how DLA is changing to PIP and the trials and tribulations thereof. That one could run for years. You could do charts and things explaining it all. DLA Watch! I’ll tell you now if the Civil Service have their way it will be a dog’s breakfast.
Deaf sport. Come on! It’s soooo obvious! Is there a Deaf Cup Final! Snooker/pool match? Sport is definitely a rising passion in this country, especially footy.
Such a pity there was almost zero coverage of the Deaflympics. I can understand the difficulties in traipsing a camera crew right across Europe but there were no stills, no reports, no drama. Why not?
I decided not to go for the same reason … The Botheration Factor. However in future, if they want to keep going then they need to be more publicity conscious. Frankly at present they are hopeless.
And then there’s education. New things coming along all the time now. I feel it is important to show the >many< aspects of being deaf not just a few idealistic situations. Deaf people have kids. They want to be informed.
I feel there is also potential for discussion programmes. What about the CEO of a deaf organisation in discussion with a group of mixed ability deaf people?
Will that do?
William Mager
August 21, 2013
Wow – that’s a lot of feedback! Not sure I can respond to all of your points, but I remember the old messageboard very well. Do you still think that’s needed when we have facebook, twitter and other forms of social media? Interesting points re programme content though – I think we address a few of those in the upcoming series.
samantha jane smith
August 21, 2013
what is your favourite episode that ever did on see hear
William Mager
August 21, 2013
There’s been a few. I enjoyed doing some undercover filming with this site’s editor, Charlie Swinbourne, for an item on hearing loops in shops. I’ve also been in a tiny fishing boat for 12 hours filming a deaf man swimming the channel. But my favourite has to be The 1981 House – a programme where we put a deaf family into a house with 1980s technology and filmed the results to celebrate See Hear’s 25th anniversary. We could try doing that again if there’s a 50th anniversary – who knows?
Natalya (@barakta)
August 21, 2013
I too liked the 1980s programme, it was nicely done and funny to boot.
Melissa Mostyn
August 21, 2013
Nice one, William. Congratulations on the new job. Will be following the questions, and your answers, with interest. Exciting times.
William Mager
August 21, 2013
Thanks Melissa!
Anon
August 21, 2013
Congratz on taking over the reins on See Hear, Andy is right; it can’t be an easy job.
Sadly there are a lot of rumours of See Hear coming to an end soon, this would be horrendous… Surely the BBC can’t do that??
William Mager
August 21, 2013
Rumours of See Hear’s demise have been around for a few years! it wasn’t long ago that See Hear used to get 3 year commissions, with the then Director General Mark Thompson attending team meetings and describing it as ‘the jewel in the BBC’s public service crown’. These days the future isn’t as clear. We’re still waiting on news of a new commission for the next series in 2014. I’m quietly confident we’ll get one. As soon as there’s news, we’ll let people know one way or the other.
Anon
August 21, 2013
It’s worth noting that the BBC is a public service broadcaster.
Any decisions to stop broadcasting the only regular Deaf factual program would be very difficult to justify in view of their public service obligations.
anon
August 21, 2013
Then again, they could argue that they provide 100% subtitling, in vision signing, and cast deaf characters in dramas on a regular basis, thus negating the need for any more See Hear. Who knows.
BazzaDeaf
August 21, 2013
Can we have Maggie Whooley and Martin Coalville back? …. and “Her Ladyship” is still missing Julian Peedle-Calloo (I dont understad why?)
William Mager
August 21, 2013
When See Hear started in 1981, Maggie and Martin were the original presenters. Maggie was deafened and an SSE user – Martin was a hearing Child of Deaf Adults, and SSE too. Both presenters spoke and signed throughout. That was appropriate to the time – but I’m not sure that would work for today’s See Hear! Maggie’s happily retired and doing other things, but you’ll see her and Martin pop up in a couple of programmes this series – keep your eyes peeled.
As for ‘Her Ladyship'(!) Julian is forging a career as an actor and a writer/director of dramas and factual programmes inside and outside the BBC. While we’d love to have him back, he’s probably got better things to do with his time. That said, you might see him pop up in this series too.
Rebecca Miller
August 21, 2013
Hi there!
I was just thinking whilst previous episodes of see hear are always interesting to watch.. I’d like to see more focus on hard hitting issues especially in political areas.
As a community support officer I am seeing a huge rise in complaints from the deaf community with regards to everyday life.
One of my main concerns is the provision of BSL by local authorities and NHS trusts. As I’m sure you’re aware the powers that be are looking for cheaper alternatives to provide BSL translation to members of the public therefore considering agencies who report they have resources to provide the translation service whilst not actually following guidelines or having the actual resources! I have successfully managed to get one agency struck off the list of tenders for BSL provision by having meetings with commissioners in the area and informing them of the breaches that a particular agency made.
I’m only one person though and have been successful in this one area of Gateshead and I’m hoping to influence other local authorities to follow suit.
However it is a long and hard road ahead, I’d like see hear to influence it’s public to make their voices heard in their own communities.
I’d also like to see some light-hearted comedy as well! I do miss the news part of see hear updating us on what is happening around the country!
William Mager
August 21, 2013
Hi Rebecca
Great comments and suggestions – very useful indeed. We might not be able to make those changes this series, but we can definitely try to put some of those into action for the following.
As someone who filmed his fair share of Deaf News stories with Tessa Padden in the past, I can understand people’s need to see more regional news stories on a weekly basis too.
Looking at the programmes we have coming up, there are one or two hard hitters in there I think – but we could always try and do more.
Paul
August 21, 2013
Congratulations on your new gig!
Nice to see See Hear doing some audience engagement with the deaf community. Looking forward to watching some hard-hitting features such as the decline of teachers of deaf in the coming months.
Oh, any jobs going in See Hear production office?! If you don’t ask, you don’t get….
William Mager
August 21, 2013
We’re always on the lookout for new talent! You might have to wait until the next series, though.
amell
August 21, 2013
Congratulations on the new role. Look forward to seeing great things.
On See Hear feedback I’d like to see more topical debate about issues affecting us, but done well, with a serious, more than cursory coverage of the issues. Paxman/Marr style would work better.
When See Hear have tried this before, it has ended up feeling somewhat underwhelming and low brow. I’m frequently left thinking what was the point of doing that – the segment was probably rushed in an effort to get more content into each episode. Hopefully an area that can be improved.
William Mager
August 22, 2013
That’s a very good point about topical debate – we’ve had a lot of debate style programmes on See Hear in the past. In fact I worked as a researcher on some of them, and enjoyed that experience.
It’s quite hard to get a good debate set up – it needs strong contributors as well as a presenter. We do have one in the works which is still being edited – a studio discussion between Clive Mason and Dr Paddy Ladd about cochlear implants and deaf identity. That hopefully will feel quite in depth and provide food for further thought.
Editor
August 22, 2013
That will be an interesting one to watch ..
robertmduncan
August 22, 2013
William, it’s good to see somebody of your style, intelligence, flair and all-round media nous at the helm of See Hear… OK, flattery over!
The response to your piece already shows how much passion, interest and potential support there is in the Deaf community. I think Andy and others have put their collective fingers on some issues that are a perennial problem for a programme with a built-in identity crisis, which See Hear has always had, with its ‘Deaf and hard of hearing’ remit… “And now for our public service minority programme on Asian, African, Polynesian and Antarctic affairs… first we speak to a penguin!” I think there has never been a real understanding of that at higher levels in the BBC, though I know many have tried. You, I’m sure, understand that, as your progress since that baptism of burning wax in ‘Text, Batteries and Earwax’ shows. I hope you can somehow resolve that (OK, the impossible comes later!)
I totally agree with what others have said about the need to bring See Hear into line with the sharp, clinical approach of mainstream news and current affairs programmes. Too often it is a lot of cosy in-talk. In the 80s and 90s, when we had competing programmes on Channel 4, Listening Eye and Sign On, with presenters like Clark Denmark, Rachell Bastikar, Tessa Padden, Paul Redfern,Francis Murphy and others, we consciously tried to be different from the happy-hand-clappy chumminess of See Hear. I’m not saying we always succeeded, but Paddy Ladd for one thought we went quite a long way, as you can see from his essential-reading chapters on Deaf TV in his classic ‘Understanding Deaf Culture’ (2003) and ‘Minority Language Media’ (Multilingual Matters, 2007). I have long thought that the best possible start for any serious producer of Deaf/BSL programmes would be to lock them in a room for a few days with Paddy till they ‘get it’! His knowledge and wisdom have been woefully underused and too often completely ignored by those who should have known better.
The only other thing I would ask (and it’s not for me to ask, as a hearing person, but I will anyway) is PLEASE when BSL is being used, try and make sure it’s properly monitored. From Day 1 of Listening Eye, even the great Clark Denmark and everybody who followed had a BSL monitor watching everything they signed and telling them if it was making sense/coming across right/ too influenced by English. For some reason See Hear never seemed to feel they needed that – maybe it was regarded as a luxury, or they thought they knew better than Clark Denmark and all who followed. I know you have a mixed remit and not everything can be about Deaf culture, BSL etc. But when it is about Deaf culture and BSL, please take that monumental responsibility to the language and culture of Deaf people seriously and get it right. There are those around who can advise.
I’m looking forward to the interview with Paddy – about time he got a fragment of the recognition he deserves. And the fact that you have a Deaf Forward Planning Producer, in Caroline O’Neill, is another good sign. I wish you both and the rest of your team all the best and look forward to a programme with the wax out of its ears, the gum out of its eyes and a clear view of what it’s trying to achieve.
William Mager
August 22, 2013
Well, that’s certainly what I call detailed feedback! You make an interesting point about the healthiness of competiting BSL programmes. Don’t you think we have that at the moment with BSLBT and the likes of The Hub?
Linda Richards
August 23, 2013
Hello Billy and well done on your new promotion and responsibilities!
There are several things I’d like to see improved, continued or included…. I’ll send you a list!
For now, the first thing is … Please change the God-awful titles….. How these titles ever got approval continues to baffle me not least because they are the most patronising I’ve ever seen, but also because they bear no relationship to the content and audience of See Hear.
The second thing is, in relation to comments made by others above, please don’t return to the days of the low brow and underwhelming debate style programmes or discussions. That, (like the dire SH titles) would be patronising to us and, as a window to our world, has been embarrassing in the past. The BSLBT programme ‘The Hub’ (produced by Remark!) has always featured guests contributing to the discussion in the programme. Some of those have been exceptional contributors who, in my view, are worthy of a spot of their own or a chance to show their skills as a new presenter. I think the problem with SH and some of its contributors in this way in the past, is that we had the same faces each time and you did wonder if there wasn’t anybody else in the world who could comment on the issues to say nothing of what it must have felt like to the Deaf audience from all corners of the UK to keep seeing the same face(s). What Paddy has to say will be interesting to watch and I look forward to that. I agree he and his work has been much underused … (From NUD days through to ‘Deafhood’ and much, much, more!)
The local Deaf news feature was not for everybody. I recall some Deaf people reporting that they didn’t enjoy it for a number of reasons. There are many challenges to how this is produced and presented, and, questions about whether it is a viable concept for the 21st century given the many forms of social media and the need to get the best out of (or into!) the limited broadcast time SH has.
The final point I will make for today is, please overhaul the translation and transcript work that is used for dubbing and subtitles. One of the training points I make about this has been that the transcript work and subsequent dubbing isn’t for Deaf people. It’s for an entirely different audience – a hearing audience – at several different levels. I have cringed, cursed and cried at the errors and misrepresentation of Deaf people. Not only is it not good enough, it’s insulting because if SH can’t get it right as our ‘voice’, then anything goes at every single level of representation of Deaf people.
I’ll stop now! I promise I’ll send ideas through soon.
Enjoy your tenure!
Lmr xx
William Mager
August 23, 2013
We’ve already actioned a couple of points on your list Linda! Interesting alternative view on debates and deaf news too – I think people reading and contributing to these comments may also be starting to understand how different people want very different things from See Hear.
robertmduncan
August 23, 2013
William, I wasn’t really aiming to start a discussion, just give some informed (I hope) and critical support. Yes, BSLBT and the BSL Zone is the healthiest development for 30 years and they’re already giving better opportunities than Deaf people have ever had to make their own programmes. Like you at See Hear, they are very under-funded and under-resourced to do what they have to do, and I hope that can change. I would like to see both your production enterprises much more run by Deaf people themselves, following a Deaf agenda in a way that captures the heart of the Deaf community but is guided by the intellectual rigour, discipline and drive of people like you, Charlie Swinbourne – and others working for BSLBT and See Hear.
Sorry to be repetitive – and I am not on commission – but I do think the present generation would gain a lot by really talking in-depth with pioneers like Paddy Ladd – and Maggie Woolley and others – about the foundations they laid and the lessons to be learned from progress – or lack of progress – so far. Like the Reith generation at the BBC – with John Reith’s mission statement – “To educate, inform and entertain” – what they had to say is there to be built on, not forgotten.
Good luck.
William Mager
August 23, 2013
For the last ten years, I’ve had a clear idea in my mind of what See Hear should be. It’s a blank sheet of paper with a list of things it should do. But with the BBC, as with the BSLBT, there are many obstacles which we have to overcome to get there, and so many compromises which have to be made in order for the programme to continue. It can be frustrating at times – but we’ve already achieved a lot with series 33.
Above all else, I’m so pleased that people have taken the time to comment and give feedback. We want more of this. Keep it coming.
Robert Mandara
August 23, 2013
Congratulations and good luck on your appointment!
I don’t live in the UK anymore and cannot (legally) see See Hear. As far as I know, the programme’s for the deaf concerning deaf issues which is fine as far as it goes.
However, it always seems to me that the lot of deaf and HOH people would be vastly improved if only hearing people were aware of our needs and how we tick. So I wonder if there’s scope for you to reach out to or include hearing viewers? Maybe you’re in a good position to make a special or spin-off targeted at hearing viewers, not necessarily under the banner of See Hear?
William Mager
August 23, 2013
We’d love to make a few mainstream deaf programmes using See Hear staff and resources – in fact we have a couple of programme proposals on the go…
Peter
September 8, 2013
Wow! Well done for your appointment as a new series Producer for See Hear.
It is about time for someone like yourself to step in and take this programme by storm.
The format, camerawork and style on See Hear need updating into the 21st Century. I’m sure you would be the right person to direct this to Pimlico.
Looking forward to your innovation and inspiration to allow many of us to contribute our films or documentary on television than on YouTube or Vimeo.
Congratulations and hopefully, one day, an award from BAFTA becomes a reality!