My husband and I recently decided to buy travel insurance with the bank.
When it came to medical questions, the person from the travel insurance company linked to the bank asked if I could speak on the phone.
So l told the banker who was dealing with our money that it was not possible as l was profoundly deaf and unable to hear.
The person from the insurance company insisted l spoke on the phone with my details, such as my full name, address and asked that l gave my permission for the bank to ask me sensitive questions about my health.
I thought me! Talk through the phone – how? How absurd!
I could have ‘blown raspberry,’ but of course l did not. Instead, I made some noises telling them my full name, address and giving my consent to the banker to ask me questions.
I knew very well what l said to her/him made no sense.
Then we went though some questions about any medical conditions. This was fine as l understood they needed to know in full.
One of the questions took me by surprise and to my disgust, it was “Do you take medication for your hearing loss and for your speech”?
Come on, this is 21st century. Most, if not all professionals should have awareness of deafness.
When I told Caroline, our daughter about this, she said she remembered helping her father with phoning someone who asked if her father could talk over the phone.
She said no, as he was profoundly deaf and unable to use the phone. Caroline was then asked if her father could GRUNT over the phone.
Caroline was so livid and fuming that she wrote the company a letter. She received a letter of apology.
When will these people learn?
Susan has recently retired from being a Registered Mental Health nurse (RMN) for over 12 years. She was one of the first three BSL users to become a nurse after studying for 3 years at Salford University. She has two children and five lovely grandchildren.
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Sam
February 25, 2015
Oh that kind of thing does wind me up!! I will happily speak in to the phone and confirm that I give this person permission to talk for me, but……I could be anybody!! They have no way of knowing that I am actually the account holder!
Andy not him, me.
February 25, 2015
It is quite amazing that this problem comes up over and over again. It has been explained to these people time and time again that under the Equality Act 2010 all deaf people are entitled to a reasonable adjustment to accommodate their communication problems. Not just on the telephone but for all forms of communication.
The law is pretty simple, if WE cannot manage then THEY have to do something about it. They can’t just say “hard luck” as used to happen in the past.
What amazes me about this story is that a substantial organisation is so unprofessional that they do not already know the above. All customer relations advisors should be trained in the requirements of the Equality Act. Most people understand that they must treat black and other ethnic people with respect but they don’t carry that idea forward to disabled people. It isn’t just deaf people, it is all disabled people who are discriminated against, but obviously in different ways.
The parallel here is when a person with a mobility problem is made to walk up stairs. Most people can grasp that idea but they can’t also grasp the idea that people with communication problems also need some adaption to be made. They can’t just be inflexible about it, they have a duty to adapt. I do agree that deafness is not really a disability in the sense that hearing people understand it, but we are protected by disability law, like it or not, so in this case we have to own it.
Certainly we should make a fuss. Don’t shout or stamp your feet, the best way is to go away and write a firm letter to the Head Office of the company. Give names and dates, also times because phone calls are logged these days. Point out that a breach of the EA 2010 has taken place and that the company has a duty to do something about it. This usually works because the higher ups in all the companies do understand their obligations. It’s just that the lower ranks tend to make up the rules to suit themselves. Attention from the Big Boss will certainly cause a change!
We CAN win this one, the law is well established and should be followed by all organisations. Anything less is just lack of respect.
Roz
February 25, 2015
Unbelievable, sorry to read about your bad experience. I used to sell insurance and once had a call from a Deaf customer via the talk relay service (sorry I forget what they are actually called) I tried to help but insurance jargon is overly complicated. We were not able to send policy documents until they had bought a policy. All I could offer was for them to buy a policy, read the terms, and then cancel within 14 days if they didn’t want to keep it!
I wish I had been older at the time and then I would have thought to talk to the top bosses about making the info accessible. Having a text phone number isn’t enough if you can’t offer a good service to Deaf customers anyway. And it contradicts this particular company’s brand tagline! I won’t name them as this is nearly ten yrs ago.
When I phone any company now on my partner’s behalf I always question them about the ridiculousness of asking to speak to her, she can speak but it’s still pointless, I could have anybody there pretending to be her. Insure and Go are very helpful for travel insurance and have always been happy to take info for both of us from me.
Jemima Buoy
February 25, 2015
Hi Susan! That annoys me too!
So if it happens again, we ought to be saying back to them (that is, before we grunt over the telephone) what you are asking is in breach of the Equality Act 2010? How should we say it, I would very much like to know, any ideas anyone?
Thanks!
Cathy
February 25, 2015
Oh dear this problem is as old as the hills! I remember having problems with the old minicom and feeling so frustrated with the Data Protection Act I often felt like throwing the minicom at the wall!!! People at the other end refused to engage because of the “third person”. When mobiles became popular I gave the minicom up for good.
Of course, the problem remained. I got my daughter or friend to ring up and they would still want ID on the phone. Naturally, we could be anyone but the questions they ask are DOB, address etc so they will know we are the right person. Iam most fortunate to have speech; a rarity in someone as profoundly deaf as me. So I give answers only, it is made clear I cannot hear anything they say to me at all. This problem will not vanish.
I do not agree with Andy: “this has been explained to these people time and time again” that is nonsense!! Bosses do NOT explain the law to there workers nor has it been announced on the news!!! Hundreds of thousands of people have absolutely no idea about the “Equality Act 2010!” Less still do they have Deaf Awareness as not enough people teach this around the country. We must also remember there is usually a high turnover of staff, so new workers have no idea, either!!! This means we go round and round in circles with them!!!
We will never be rid of this problem as it is really The Data Protection Act that discriminates against deaf people and we are not going to be rid of that anytime soon!!!
Iam actually in the process of taking a 3rd company to court for Breach of the Equality Act 2010!! So that answers Andy’s question: when will these people learn? The answer to that is: “Never!”
LJ
February 25, 2015
“I knew very well what l said to her/him made no sense.”
It might be making more sense than we realise. For instance we always see that phone conversations are/maybe recorded for staff/training purposes. Likely *All* phone calls are recorded now because it is evidence of contact regardless of whether they understand us or not.
A deaf person’s voice is likely to be more distinguishable than a hearing persons. There is plenty of recording equipment around to prove whom a voice belongs to. I have no problem with any of this as it is to my benefit if anyone acted fraudulently over the phone in my name, I would just say to them ‘play back my conversation with you and match my voice’
I may be wrong about this and likely to be shot down in flames by others who disagree but it is a valid thought.
Cathy
February 25, 2015
Lj, Iam not going to shoot you down in flames, because I agree with you. Voices can be recorded and this would prove who it is.
However, Iam not sure deaf voices can be recorded because many dont have legible speech so it would not be recorded properly, would it? I may be wrong here but I think recording voices relies on clear legible speech not just “noise”. After all anyone can make “noise” over the phone! Could we actually prove who that was in a court of law?! I bet a million dollars it would be thrown out before it reaches the court steps!!!!
Natalya D
February 25, 2015
*arghle* I hate this too. I have clear speech but I still can’t reliably hear what the person on the other end of a phone is saying. I find because my speech doesn’t sound deaf people don’t believe I can’t hear them well. I think it is instinctive for hearies to assume speech “quality” is indicative of hearing and understanding level which it really really really isn’t as we all know.
Last time I was asked to speak into a phone I couldn’t hear, I refused. I just kept saying to my letting agency “I am deaf, I do not use telephony for voice” until the nice letting agent told the bank and they eventually let me verify the transaction by me putting my pin into the local PIN machine for my house deposit… But I could just have easily ended up in stalemate and having to do the voice verification. Certainly I had that with RBOS who wouldn’t do stuff in branch which wasn’t my home branch and when staff did the calling for me while I was there they insisted on me doing some of the voice verification which I did feel compelled to do. I soon yanked all the money and am now trying to close the account (which they’re also being rubbish about).
I also dislike doing financial or personal complex things by relay telephony cos of the high instance of errors (NatWest sent £10k to the WRONG account on relay cos the adviser got flustered by relay so just ignored the account/sort info and dumped the money in a similarly named destination account – I did get £50 and an apology when I complained about that). Numbers get mixed up, details don’t get passed on. I don’t blame relay ops or poorly paid callcentre workers but I won’t risk my financial or personal info like this cos it’s Just Too Stressful…
Organisations need to realise telephony is not suitable for MANY deaf people EVEN with relay.
If people can name and shame and complain that has to start raising awareness but I know that takes energy and is exhausting.
Services HAVE to accept relay calls. OfCom guidance at http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/services-and-billing/relay which is worth sending to them in complaints.
If you need to show some legal teeth, try referencing this case where a deaf postman’s relay calls were repeatedly refused http://www.simpsonmillar.co.uk/news/news.aspx?newsid=432 which resulted in a £4.5k payout for disability discrimination…
I think if you use terps then you can ask service providers to let you sign a document confirming you are deaf and will use registered interpreters to do calls – maybe someone who knows more about this could write or do a BSL vid for LC about that?
And of course many of us who have access to a pet-hearie of appropriate gender will just get a friend/family member to pretend to be us… An option I don’t have and hate on principle but seems really common amongst my D/deaf/HOH friends. 🙁
Administrator
February 26, 2015
So very glad to see the several references to the Equality Act (which encapsulates the provisions of the old Disability Discrimination Act). These commentators are absolutely right and anyone who insists on the performance of acts which amount to discrimination is in violation of the Act. No qualification to that whatsoever. If you (the original poster or the current reader of this response) are subjected to this type of discrimination, demand (don’t ask) to know the name of someone in and the address of their legal department to be sent to you (in writing).
A similar situation for me which parallels this type of issue is where, on a web-site (e.g., if I want to buy something) you have a give a telephone number. I am deaf (small “d” – it’s because of age) and refuse to use a telephone – no problem speaking (ask anyone!), but an immense problem hearing. (I usually get round this by putting in what is obviously, to a human but not a computer, a nonsense number such as 0123 456 7890. But, in any order details, I do usually make it clear it is a nonsense number and why I have shown it.)
Equality Act and disability discrimination Go for it!
Heather Peachey
March 4, 2015
If a Deaf person is phoning through a registered interpreter any organisation should accept this as long as the interpreter gives their name and registration number. The organisation can check this instantly using the online register search.