Little Mix concert promoter taken to court over access to sign language interpreter

Three Deaf parents gave evidence in court today, after a British Sign Language (BSL) interpreter wasn’t provided for support acts at a Little Mix concert in September 2017.

Sally Reynolds, Sarah Cassandro and Victoria Nelson attended the concert at South of England Event Centre in Sussex with their hearing children. While they were able to secure an injunction for promoter LHG Live Limited to provide BSL access for Little Mix’s performance, an interpreter wasn’t provided for the warm-up acts Ella Eyre and Germein (then known as The Germein Sisters).

LHG Live Limited had offered Sally carer tickets for her to provide her own interpreter, but this was turned down in favour of an interpreter provided by the promoter.

In a statement to BBC News in 2018, the promoter said: “We received a request from Sally Reynolds to supply an interpreter.

“We consulted with her recommended agency and agreed to provide the professional interpreter of her choice for the Little Mix show.

“This included specific staging and lighting, and a set list in advance.”

LHG Live Limited later changed its name to Live in the UK Limited before going into liquidation last year, with a voluntary liquidator appointed in August 2020.

The news means that no monetary remedy will be granted to the three parents if their case is successful, and the legal team working on the case – solicitor Chris Fry of Fry Law and Catherine Casserley of Cloisters Chambers – will not be paid for the work.

However, in a CrowdJustice page for the case, the campaigners write: “If we can get a judgment in our favour, then this will give deaf people something they can send to organisations to show that there is legal backing and that we will stand up for our access rights.”

Speaking in court on Thursday, Sally said “we didn’t want the carer tickets; we wanted an interpreter”, before adding that she expected that the event “would provide an interpreter, not for me to bring someone”.

When asked by District Judge (DJ) Avent about the possibility of lipreading from the crowd, she replied that it is “impossible to read from that distance”, citing issues with lights and reflections and mentioning the fact that lipreading isn’t 100 per cent accurate.

Sarah later added in her evidence: “How does a carer help? … I would still have to pay for an interpreter.

“What would the carer do?”

She also mentioned that the lack of an interpreter for the support acts made the discussion after the concert “even more difficult”, as her hearing daughter was able to access all of the performances.

The third parent, Victoria Nelson, touched upon access barriers as well, mentioning that she was told by someone that there was a helicopter bringing in Little Mix to the concert, only to find out through her daughter that there wasn’t one at all.

Victoria described the experience as “chaotic”.

Marie Pascall, director of Performance Interpreting, was also called upon as a witness, alongside Stephanie Raper, who provided the interpretation for Little Mix during the concert in question.

In her conversation with DJ Avent, Marie said that an interpreter can prepare for the support act a week before a concert, but in this instance, the interpreter “wouldn’t have had any preparation” because she had less than 24 hours’ notice.

Touching upon the short timeframe in which the support acts were confirmed before the concert, Marie added that as the main act has been prepared in advance, an interpreter would have then had the availability to rehearse the support acts.

This point was illustrated further by Stephanie, who mentioned that she interpreted a Little Mix concert in Hull in July 2018 – a gig she was booked in to cover in June.

She went on to add that she was given the setlists for the two support acts – The Germein Sisters and X Factor winners Rak-su – on 8 and 9 July respectively. As she was well-prepared for Little Mix, she said, she could prepare for the two groups in the week before the concert.

The first day of the hearing lasted more than five hours, in a session which also saw concerns raised over the quality of the interpretation provided by the two interpreters present.

Catherine Casserley, the barrister representing the claimants, challenged one interpreter after he brought attention to concerns in the video call’s chat box about the BSL interpretation, without signing as he did so.

District Judge Avent responded to say that the two interpreters had taken the interpreter’s oath – which states that they will “faithfully interpret” proceedings – and instructed people not to comment in the chat about the interpretation provided.

LGBT+ activist Abigail Gorman, who was watching the proceedings, wrote on Twitter: “Being told not to complain about the lack of access in a hearing that is about lack of access… the irony.”

Being told to not complain about the lack of access in a hearing that is about lack of access… the irony. #LittleMixCourtCase https://t.co/Fy8PmwDIvw

— Abigail Gorman (She/Her) (@abigailgorman) July 1, 2021

In another tweet, Twitter user Alexandra Shaw confirmed that she had filed a complaint with the National Registers of Communication Professionals working with Deaf and Deafblind people (NRCPD), the national voluntary regulator of BSL interpreters.

In a statement issued to The Limping Chicken, an NRCPD spokesperson said: ’’We are always concerned when we see reports of poor interpreting practice and it’s a powerful use of social media to be able to bring this to our attention during the hearing.

“This is not just about the interpreters but also the way the courts work with them. We regret that the official way of reporting such concerns to the judge did not resolve the problem.

“It would be terrible if a case about failure to provide access and inclusion to a deaf claimant failed because of a failure to provide access and inclusion for the same person in our courts.

“Today, we raised the matter of this case to the Ministry of Justice and asked that the appropriate provision is in place for the rest of the hearing and will press for the circumstances to be looked into by them.

“When we receive formal complaints about the professional practice of individual interpreters, we will investigate fairly in the usual way under our Complaints Procedure in which both parties will have their say.’’

The case continues tomorrow at 10am (BST). Live coverage from today’s proceedings can be found on The Limping Chicken writer Liam O’Dell’s Twitter account.

Photo: Marcen27/Flickr.

By Liam O’Dell. Liam is a mildly deaf freelance journalist and campaigner from Bedfordshire. He wears bilateral hearing aids and can be found talking about disability, theatre, politics and more on Twitter and on his website.