Some have recently suggested that the solution to the problem with Access to Work is simply that interpreters should significantly reduce their rates. I would not reject sensible discussions about ATW rates outright, but I feel that before we all collectively acquiesce to the de-professionalisation of BSL interpreting by an external, uninformed entity, we need to take into account some bigger considerations.
The overall concern is not for the immediate hit interpreters’ bank accounts may suffer if rates are reduced yet further, but for the future of the interpreting profession in general and, in particular, the impact it will eventually have on consumers of interpreting services.
BSL interpreting has reached a certain level of professionalisation that enables the public to trust that they will receive a minimum standard of quality when they hire an interpreter. Unfortunately, recent decisions by the DWP are threatening the assuredness of quality that may be expected when hiring an interpreter. Responding to DWP cuts or changes to Access to Work by paying interpreters sub-standard rates may likely have unintended unfortunate consequences for Deaf workers and their hearing colleagues who use interpreting services.
First, I would argue that agencies exert far more control over the market than interpreters do. Typically, an agency will take the interpreter’s fee and then add charges that may take it to the maximum allowed under the Access to Work scheme.
Given this reality, asking interpreters to accept less remuneration will not alleviate the problem if an agency continues to charge the maximum allowed. Agency integrity will, therefore, need to be an important part of the solution.
It is also worth noting that there are plenty of individuals working as BSL interpreters in the UK that are able to secure work without any type of professional alignments. In other words, anyone can call themselves an interpreter without ASLI or NRCPD membership.
It is likely that if working wages are driven down in a certain sector like Access to Work, then it may no longer be feasible for those qualified practitioners who do have these professional memberships to continue working in that sector.
The remaining pool of candidates would be those that are unqualified, forcing consumers to accept lower quality services. By lowering wages, more employment opportunity is being created for these unqualified practitioners. This availability of work will also lessen the incentive for these practitioners to become qualified. Furthermore, once it happens in one sector, it will more easily happen in another. In fact, it is already happening. We have seen legal interpreters forced to leave their specialisation when their earnings were driven down to the point where employment in that sector was no longer sustainable.
Essentially, by backtracking on the progress of the professionalisation of BSL interpreting in the UK, consumers will ultimately be receiving sub-optimal services.
The motive inspiring many who become qualified interpreters is usually not money, so it is not necessary that the financial incentive be so great that it is what drives people to become qualified interpreters. However, it is important that the profession is financially viable as an option to both future and current practitioners and that it justifies the investments of time, effort, and money necessary to enter it and practice it well. If it is not, consumers will eventually lose out when there becomes a shortage of skilled interpreters.
Unfortunately, those making the decisions at ATW are not knowledgeable about interpreting and they have neglected to adequately consult with professionals or consumers.
Many interpreters are willing to make adjustments on fees for certain individuals and situations. What I hope is clear is that the depth of the issue isn’t as easy as interpreters’ wages. To expect that both consumers and interpreters unquestioningly comply with across the board mandates made by an entity that underwent no significant effort to consult with either, both jeopardises and undermines the professionalism that has thus far been achieved.
That doesn’t just affect interpreter’s wages; it potentially affects the quality of interpreters that Deaf and hearing consumers will have in the future. We all need to continue to campaign against these changes.
In conclusion, Deaf workers, interpreters, and agencies should all work together by lobbying as a united front for Deaf people to be able to perform their jobs and for interpreters to be able to continue theirs as well. Stakeholder organisations need to obtain a more accurate understanding of the expertise professional interpreters exercise and respect this accordingly.
Above all, interpreters and consumers absolutely must be consulted in decisions impacting all of us. While BSL interpreting has made significant strides toward professionalisation, resulting in higher quality services for consumers, that professionalisation is being yanked from our grasp and placed on the edges of a very slippery slope. When it starts to slide, the quality of interpreters eventually will too.
Brett Best is a professional interpreter with over a decade of experience interpreting worldwide with specialisations in ASL and BSL. She holds degrees in Interpreting, Deaf Education, Deaf Studies, and is currently studying toward a European MSc in Sign Language Interpreting. Brett is especially interested in strategies for consumer-interpreter collaboration.
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Tim
May 14, 2014
Very well argued. People are being pulled into a race to the bottom. If we can afford tax cuts for millionaires then we can afford to pay interpreters properly.
These MPs who claim ‘we can’t afford it’ – they are getting an 11% pay rise.
These changes will reward bad interpreters and punish good interpreters.
Oh Dear
May 14, 2014
‘If we can afford tax cuts for millionaires then we can afford to pay interpreters properly.’
Learn economics, i.e Laffer curve, before making a silly point that isn’t relevant to the article.
Why the insult?
May 14, 2014
You mean the widely discredited Laffer curve as favoured by Reagan that is now considered to have failed by almost everyone?
Perhaps think your statements through before insulting people next time?
Matthew
May 14, 2014
Funny how MPs justify a huge pay rise to encourage the best candidates to become politicians. Similarly for bankers.
Yet when it comes to providing a service that positively affects the lives of those that need help, they are expected to take less.
It is truly depressing that opinion polls are showing the Tories are anywhere near victory next year, given the damage they have wrought upon this country in four short years.
Cathy
May 14, 2014
So here the argument has been put forward for keeping interpreter rates at their current rates.
As a person who uses interpreting services on a fairly regular basis, I beg to differ.
Firstly, we need to be shot of these agencies. I was appalled when I first learnt how freelance interpreting works: using an agent. This defies the word: ‘freelance’. If an interpreter is really ‘freelance’ then what on earth are they doing with an agent?
Interpreters should not be relaxing on their laurels waiting for an agent to ring up and say, ‘there’s a job for you in Birmingham next Friday at 2pm’. They need to be accepting jobs themselves, whereby deaf people can contact them via: Skype, texting, email or letter and book their services direct. Other companies and people can book this way too. There is NO excuse for agencies, the deaf community has NO call for them whatsoever!
As for interpreters being inspired I have often wondered what inspired them to become an interpreter in the first place. It is simply not true that those interpreting are not inspired by money: they are! I have asked students who are learning sign language why they want to become interpreters and the answer invariably is: ‘Its good money!’ Well of course it is, what a surprise!
Even after all these years living in the deaf community I am still waiting to hear that someone is inspired for a different reason, such as altruism and that they are motivated by the deaf community and have a desire to help us communicate better with the mainstream world. And that they are sympathetic to our cause. But, oh no it’s the money that’s driving them!
There is no excuse for keeping interpreting at sky high rates especially in this unfortunate economic climate we are mired in. The excuse given that we shall have a sub optimal service is nonsense! This is a clever excuse for keeping rates sky high!
In reality, interpreters should be motivated by altruism as this job involves another person and a vulnerable one at that. We cannot afford to take on board those who are driven by money. If people are driven by how much is pouring into their bank account at the expense of someone else then they should up sticks and go and work in the square mile!
Interpreting services are first and foremost for us in the deaf community not for hearing people to get rich quick on! The bottom line is: we need altruistic interpreters who are happy to interpret at qualified levels, at reasonable rates without any agency involvement at all.
The Deaf Community have enough battles on our hands, the last thing we need is interpreters striving for the highest nominator in pay structures. This job is not just for you to earn a wage but for another person to earn a wage too
The truth is once interpreters are fully qualified being able to translate BSL to English and vice versa becomes second nature and therefore does not demand sky high rates.
It is high time the Deaf Community was put first for once in our stressful, isolated, beleagured discriminative times. If interpreters and those who want to become one, cannot step up to the plate for US then its time to say: goodbye!
Matt Brown
May 14, 2014
Cathy, your message above is an example of stereotyping, pure and simple. I took a huge pay cut to become an interpreter and also blew my life savings on the training – to be honest I’m now wondering why the hell I bothered. I could have stayed a programmer but I wanted a different life where I was engaging face to face with humans and putting my love of language to work.
No-one told me (until it was too late) that I would be characterised as a greedy parasite by my clients, that people would daily expect me to be psychic and make a big song and dance when I point out I’m not, that strangers would be taking up to a 100% commission on my day’s earnings as compensation for sending a couple of e-mails, or that some of my colleagues in the profession would make Machiavelli look like a Care Bear.
Last year I earned about 80% of the national average wage. I’ll repeat that: I earn less than most working people.
Perhaps ATW was the worst thing to ever happen to this profession. Maybe we should just scrap the whole system and start again.
Cathy
May 14, 2014
Matt, my message is strong, but it has to be: we can’t go on like this its ridiculous!
I’m aware it’s stereotyping but if it isnt how come I can never find someone to support me on a voluntary basis? It is impossible, even as a one off. Its all money, money, money! So sad.
I agree with you, Matt, we should scrap the whole system and start again. Iam very sorry that you have 100% commission taken off you, that is wholly wrong and the very reason why we need to be shot of agencies. After all, what exactly are they doing for deaf people? Absolutely nothing except bleeding the system dry! We need a system that suits deaf people first, hearing people second, not the other way round!
Am aware you pay for courses to learn BSL, and I really think people should learn it the way I did by mixing with deaf communities and picking it up naturally. If I can do it then others can too, this would save you a bomb!
A solution to this sorry mess needs to be found and pretty sharpish!
It would be good if all the agents could tell us on here, exactly why they feel they have a right to interfere in deaf peoples’ affairs and take undeserved commission. That would be a start to resolving this crisis.
Matt Brown
May 14, 2014
Cathy: I don’t have any commission taken off me on the (rare) occasion I take ATW bookings. I’ve stopped working for private agencies who take a percentage commission. There are interpreters who won’t do that any more. You are not right to tar us all with the same brush. Despite its flaws, it is possible to source a freelancer directly by using the NRCPD Register and pay a commission to no-one. This happens, daily.
When I’m working for the public sector (in education, where most of my work is) they do charge an inflated hourly rate to the commissioner (usually another part of the local authority, but if the left hand wants to pay the right hand, that’s fine with me) and pay me considerably less (again, about half, at least in the case of the one local authority who accidentally posted me a copy of the charge sheet). At least in those cases, the money goes to supporting and developing a public not-for-profit service which provides many other uncharged forms of support to Deaf students beyond CSWs and interpreters.
What you say about voluntary or pro-bono interpreting is worth noting, though. I am actually trying to think up a system to make this easier, which does not let statutory services off the hook. If you’re reading this and would like to fund me, get in touch: matt [at] signspace.co.uk. 🙂 But again, there is nothing to stop anyone using the NRCPD site to collect a list of interpreters in your region and making a request for volunteers. Or put an advert on deaf-uk-jobs, I’ve responded to requests for volunteers through that before. If you can’t get one through those methods, it must be because people simply don’t always have the time or resources to work for nothing.
You might be able to learn BSL in the community but take it from me, you will not learn interpreting and translation skills out there. Knowing a language is not the same thing as knowing how to interpret and I had to “unlearn” absolutely everything I thought I knew to complete my studies. You would not believe the garbage that people filled my head with before I started training and sadly, some of those people were professionals who should know better.
Despite the bank-breaking cost and a growing feeling I chose the wrong job, I did absolutely love my interpreter training – I sat in lectures alongside Chinese written translators and Spanish-German conference interpreters. Sadly that course no longer exists (the Leeds MA), due to – you guessed it – Higher Education funding issues, but there are still others which must be nearly as good. 🙂
Cutting corners on training is no more an answer to “austerity” than slashing my already-sub-average wage is.
Brett
May 14, 2014
Hi Cathy, I was a bit disheartened to read your comments, but if that sentiment is there, then it is important to address.
First, I’m glad we are in agreement about agency integrity. This is an issue that needs further consideration.
Second, you said that once a person is fully qualified then interpreting becomes second nature. I’m actually glad you brought this up because I think that the assumption that if you can sign then you can interpret (and how hard can it be?) is the same misconception that may be underlying some of ATW’s decisions.
There is expertise that must be acquired and honed in order to interpret between languages, particularly simultaneously, which is what sign language interpreters usually do. This requires training, dedication, and time.
Most occupations that require specialist knowledge and training earn pay that is reflective of that expertise. But this is not really what I wanted to discuss; I am much more interested in your comments about altruism.
The most altruistic interpreter in the world is still human, and they still will have the same costs associated with living on this planet. As such, they must devote their working lives to something.
That being said, I do volunteer my services for certain situations, individuals, causes, and organisations, and I know others who do too. If it is the case that you have been unable to find anyone willing to volunteer for certain things, then I understand your frustration and that is unfortunate.
My own inspiration for becoming an interpreter is too long to recount here, but it would probably surprise you.
I thought it was interesting that you also said that interpreting services are for those in the Deaf community. Actually, interpreting services aren’t just for Deaf people, and I think that this is another misconception that ATW also seems to operate under. Interpreters are there for the benefit of hearing colleagues too.
50 years ago interpreters did interpret purely on a voluntary basis. Altruism back then wasn’t questioned or psychologically sullied by monetary remuneration. Because of the financial realities of life, these interpreters couldn’t devote their working life to interpreting, but when someone needed an interpreter, usually a friend or family member volunteered.
But could the participants in the interaction be sure that the information would be kept confidential by the interpreter? How could they be sure that what they were saying wasn’t intentionally being turned into something else?
Consumers of interpreting services today typically don’t have to worry about such things. The fact that interpreters have a Code of Conduct that they are expected to abide by is an example of professionalisation. It is one of many advancements in BSL/English interpreting.
I think we need to be aware of eventualities if we all just sit back and allow those who truly are money-driven (those making the cuts) to make decisions that affect all of us without bothering to really consult with any of us.
You mentioned a “vulnerable person” in your response. I would say that people–regardless of who they may be–are the most vulnerable when they are unaware. My point in writing this was to raise awareness of what the wider implications may be from the ATW cuts.
I appreciate the dialogue. It is the first step toward what we all really need to do–work together.
Now, if only it was as easy as scrapping the whole system and starting over!
Worth Noting
May 18, 2014
Hi Cathy,
It’s worth noting that at least some Deaf people share the concerns about what is happening with the interpreting profession and can see where it may be going. I remember this post written by a Deaf person:
http://limpingchicken.com/2012/06/28/sadaqat-ali-my-concerns-for-the-interpreting-industry/
Monkey Magic
May 14, 2014
Interpreting is a job Cathy, and good interpreters take many years to train and qualify to reach the register and should be rewarded for this in addition to their gained skills and experience. That wouldn’t be unusual in any other work place. The trouble is interpreters don’t have their own work places they work in the work places of everyone else but they are not subject to the working policies of those companies. It is also a job that takes it’s toil physically and mentally – that is one reason that interpreters may not offer much voluntary interpreting. Interpreters are also human beings with bills to pay – the same reasons that everyone goes to work. How many people like to do their job for free and would be available upon demand? If interpreters are being paid to do a job then they need not to be exhausted from doing voluntary work. Try to be reasonable and please stop tarring all interpreters with the same brush. There might be some people out there who are in it for not very positive reasons but there are plenty of interpreters that are allies of the deaf community. Interpreters never say they are in it for altruistic reasons because they are meant to be impartial and because they get shot down for being interfering do-gooders that get in the way of Deaf people from being independent. They are not carers but professional workers. You may not mind standards dropping as a result of slashing wages but there are plenty of people out there that get it that there needs to be a distinction between trained and untrained people, otherwise there is very little incentive to actually qualify for the benefit of the people who use interpreters. In your work place are junior and senior people paid the same? I doubt it. As for agencies, not many interpreters are very impressed with the amount of money that some of them make off the backs of the people that do the true grafting (not all agencies, just some). In fact some interpreters boycott the agencies that earn more than the interpreters do (or who push the fees and T&Cs down so low that interpreters might as well be volunteering by the time they take off the travel expenses and tax). Unless you do the work of an interpreter I do not think you can possibly know what it is like and the realities of what they truly earn and how they are treated and how hurtful comments like yours are. Imagine if interpreters made sweeping generalisations about Deaf people on a public forum like this – would that be ok? I don’t think so. Why is it ok to trash interpreters when you probably haven’t met them all or surveyed them for their opinions? The reason interpreters get work from agencies is because the people that need them put together big contracts and will not deal with individuals. Try and broaden your perspective before blaming interpreters for everything. Perhaps interpreters are sick of being stuck in the middle and blamed for everything when they do, in fact, have positive reasons for choosing to dedicate 7 + years of their lives to training and funding it personally. I doubt people chose to be interpreters just to wind deaf people up.
I think this is a great article that sums up the big picture really well. Hopefully most people can see that.