Lately, there seems to have been a lot of tension between deaf people and BSL/English interpreters.
I think this is because of the cuts, which have put pressure on both groups of people; some of whom have taken it out on each other as they try to manage the stress of it all.
That’s really not great, but why is it happening?
To watch this article in BSL, signed by Jen, just click play below.
Well, for example, the cuts to Access to Work funding are a hot topic at the moment. Everyone knows about that one.
Lots of deaf people are struggling because they’ve had their AtW budgets reduced. We’ve been hearing about stuff like freelance interpreters’ wages being capped at £25 per hour maximum, or £35 per hour if the booking is done via an agency. This is making life difficult.
And then there’s the infamous 30 hour rule: Many deaf people who work full time and have AtW funding for 30 hours of interpreting support a week (or more) have been told that they now have to employ a full time salaried interpreter, which usually isn’t a suitable arrangement, for various reasons.
AtW have also been telling deaf people that their employers are now responsible for paying for co-working interpreters. Deaf people are becoming expensive, aren’t we?! I’d imagine many employers won’t be queueing up to give us jobs(!)
It’s certainly a difficult time for many.
However, the Government has just announced that they’re doing a review of how AtW affects deaf people – and during that time, the 30 hour rule is on hold. You can contribute in English or BSL (apparently); they basically want people to send them under 3,000 words before 20th June. There’s more information about that here.
Also, if you’re having problems with your AtW funding, this website has information about what you can do about it.
Going back to interpreters, some people question how they can charge fees like £30 per hour anyway. That sounds quite high, if you don’t think too hard about it. It’s not that simple, though.
Remember, we’re talking about freelance interpreters here – they don’t earn £30 every hour of every day! Also, freelancers have to pay for things like sick pay, holiday time, insurance, professional memberships, registration, training etc. It’s not like having a full time salaried job.
Actually, interpreters’ charges haven’t gone up much over time and are around the same as the national average wage. ASLI’s Fees and Salaries Report has more details about that, if you’re interested.
So, where are the big interpreting bills coming from?
Interpreter booking agencies!
Agencies often have big contracts, for example with the NHS – this makes it easier for hospitals (for example) to bring in interpreters, because the agencies are responsible for sorting everything out for them.
So, yes, agencies can make bookings run more smoothly, BUT some agencies book unqualified “interpreters”, because they are cheaper… which means more profit for the agency.
This is risky!
I’ve also noticed that some agencies charge rather high fees. If you book an interpreter for one day, for example, they will probably be paid about £200, or a bit more. If you book them through an agency, the agency will charge you extra for the admin work that they do (the phone calls they make to find and book an interpreter, etc).
Of course the person who did this admin work needs to be paid, but sometimes admin charges are massively high.
I asked some deaf people and interpreters if they could give me any examples of bad agency mark-ups that they knew about. What they told me made me wonder if interpreters are being treated as “cash cows” (things that make money for other people)!?
Sickeningly, I think they might be.
I was told lots of stories that blew me away. For example, I found out that some agencies regularly charge about £200 for medical appointments that are about 2 hours long, but actually pay the interpreters about £70 for their work. Nice profit there, eh?
In one situation that I was told about, a deaf person booked an interpreter directly to do a job at the company that they worked at. The interpreter agreed, but the company already had a contract with an interpreting agency, so they had to go through them (even though there was nothing for the agency to do because the booking had already been agreed).
The agency charged £150 per day for this, on top of the interpreter’s fee… simply because they had a contract with the company!
The most shocking story that I was told, though, was about someone who needed an interpreter in a personal support situation. What do you think one agency quoted for one interpreter for a couple of hours?
£1,000!
Quite remarkable, really.
You’d be having a laugh if you think an interpreter would be paid £1,000 for a little job like that – they’d be more likely to earn about £70. What a lovely big profit for the agency there.
So yes, unfortunately, it looks like interpreters are really good cash cows for some agencies.
All is not lost, though. Of course not all agencies are like that – many are good and transparent, and will tell you how much they’re paying the interpreter that you’ve booked and how much they’re charging you for admin – all perfectly reasonable.
Other agencies won’t tell you anything, though, and will deal with your booking as if it’s a secret mission.
If you want to avoid agencies and book an interpreter directly (hearing people can do this too, so tell your GP’s receptionist!), but you’re not sure how, there are several websites that can help you:
BSL Interpreters (South Central)
Conversant (Brighton)
East Midlands Interpreters
Kent Freelance Interpreters Group
London BSL Interpreters
North East of England BSL<>English Interpreters
Surrey BSL Interpreters
Sussex Interpreters Direct
Yorkshire BSL Interpreters
I’m sure there are more – please add them in the comments.
Jen Dodds is a Contributing Editor for The Limping Chicken. When she’s not looking after chickens or children, Jen can be found translating, proofreading and editing stuff over at Team HaDo Ltd (teamhado.com). On Twitter, Jen is @deafpower.
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srhplfrth
May 20, 2014
I have two jobs for which I am no longer allowed to book interpreters direct, not only am I forced to use agencies, I can’t do the bookings myself, which has led to several few issues that had to be sorted out. I prefer to be in control & it makes no sense to me that costs for interpreting are inflated by agency use. But there are good & bad agencies & not all deaf people want the hassle of direct booking.
Andy, not him, me.
May 20, 2014
I think there is a lot of profiteering, not just in the deaf world but in the wider disability and health services area too.
When councils and the health services are involved, or if any kind of Government agency are paying, then suddenly prices double and treble and a lot of non-disabled people do very well, thank you out of “looking after” us. It’s obviously not acceptable that agencies should get more than the interpreters who earn their living and yet here they are going along with the general trend. It is exploitation that is clear!
I regularly hear about the ridiculously high fees being charged by contractors for quite mundane services like cleaning or painting and decorating. The prices charged for everyday things like soap powder and other cleaning materials is way higher than in the shops! Any kind of equipment or furniture that is supplied is charged for at the highest possible rate.
But the staff hired by these firms are only paid at the going rate. It isn’t just deaf people, it is endemic in the system.
There is a considerable amount of cash to be earned in the disability industry.
It’s not only deaf people that get ripped off and I think we should get together with other people and expose these hidden agendas. It’s about time something was said.
This is PUBLIC money and therefore it is legitimate to discuss it publicly in the public interest.
Why ARE these people getting all this money?
Ramon Woolfe
May 20, 2014
After trying to book my own choice of interpreter for my appointments with my battles with cancer, I was explained by the PALS (Patients And Liasions Service) team that they had to honour a contract with agencies whom some had no deaf aware at all.
Asking the reason behind this, they explained that the agency had interpreters who are experienced and know all the medical jargons. Fortunately for me, my Macmillan Special nurse intervened and explained that after 30 years in her profession she still doesn’t know all the medical jargons let alone for her own field.
PALS soon concurred and allowed me to choose my own interpreters who invoiced directly to the hospital and hey presto the fields were empty – no more cash cows to milk off.
Deaf people need to know how to be assertive and request this directly or via their friends, relatives especially when in a vulnerable situation.
Within employment, surely deaf employees have enough on their plates let alone to fill out these Access to Work forms and yet they are required to seek and employ their own interpreters, we are not all equipped nor have the luxury to do these extra work (Sorting our terms and conditions, job contracts, payments, sickness pay, supervisions, appraisals, human resource, training, holiday pay, maternity leave…the list goes on!!) – they’re the fundamental reason for the existence of HR departments!
BUT for me the most important issue is for deaf people to be allowed a real opportunity to provide his or her feedback for the interpreter after sessions. Far too many times deaf people have been complacent and accept the ‘poor’ interpreter for their next appointments. It is not appropriate for administrators to ask the interpreter directly if they are available for the subsequent appointments as the deaf patient would only feel pressurised and agree to employ the same interpreter.
I am not, personally and professionally, convinced that the NRCPD is actually the best route as it is not a legal requirement for any interpreters to be on the register. We need an independent body to oversee this profession and preferably something like the OFCOM, OFWATCH, OFWAT, OFSTED – Is there a such thing for interpreters?
Fran Coates
May 21, 2014
Ramon, I am so sad to know you have cancer. My thoughts are with you. I am outraged that you are ill with cancer and still you have to argue about your interpreter booking. This is just disgraceful and a total disregard to humanity. I sincerely hope that your health improves daily. Lots of warmth and hugs. Fran xxx
Judith Easter
May 20, 2014
You can find a qualified Interpreter by looking on the Visual Language Professionals website (vlp.org.uk)
Rachael Veazey
May 20, 2014
However they might not be NRCPD registered. Neither ASLI or VLP require NRCPD registration as a requirement for membership.
Dan Sumners (@sumnersdan)
May 20, 2014
For clarity, two inquiries were announced recently. The one linked to above – asking for submissions by 20 June – will be done by the Work and Pensions Select Committee. It is an inquiry into Access to Work in general. We’re waiting for confirmation of whether or not they’ll accept submissions in BSL.
The other was announced by the Minister for Disabled People. It is into the impact of Access to Work on deaf people specifically. It is a direct result of lobbying by deaf people and the UK Council on Deafness. No more details have been announced yet, but we will make sure submissions in BSL will be accepted.
See http://deafcouncil.org.uk/news/2014/05/14/minister-for-disabled-people-announces-review-of-impact-of-access-to-work-on-deaf-people-and-suspends-%e2%80%9930-hour-rule%e2%80%99/ for more info in BSL and English.
Jen Dodds (@deafpower)
May 20, 2014
Thanks for clarifying, Dan. I thought there was only one AtW inquiry! Not sure that it’s a great idea to have two, but I do hope people will contribute, either way.
Ramon, I agree r.e. being assertive about our choices of interpreters, especially in medical situations. Many of us have had to be (myself included), but I fear that this is not an option for many more of us.
Knowledge is power, so please spread the words/signs!
Clara Wood
May 20, 2014
I emailed my local MP about the first review of ATW (the Select Committee) asking whether people could give their evidence in BSL. The MP agreed that Deaf people should be able to do this and she is going to ask the Chair of the Select Committee about this.
Matt Brown
May 20, 2014
I’m mildly surprised that no mention is made in the article, or in the comments so far, of the only searchable centralised database of every single registered sign language interpreter in the UK, at NRCPD (http://www.nrcpd.org.uk).
It is not a perfect system (that’s an understatement – this is how I really feel about it: http://bit.ly/1k1z2mN) but at least you can use it to get a list of freelance interpreters in your area.
sarah jane banks
May 20, 2014
But not all qualified interpreters are on nrcpd so that is one flaw in the system.
And registered doesn’t unfortunately guarantee good or experienced. Interpreter qualifies Monday and turns up for a medical appointment/mental health booking/court case the next day. Another flaw in the system?
Newbie
May 24, 2014
Or SASLI register in Scotland.
Ramon Woolfe
May 20, 2014
Judith – I have never visited the VLP website before, thank you for inviting me this morning. There is nothing about the qualifications attained by the interpreter before one is admitted as a ‘qualified interpreter’ – Does this include any experience performed by the applicant?
By whose standards is this “qualification” deemed suitable for anyone as I’ve seen so many accredited interpreters who have sailed through the courses of interpreting and yet I would never consider employing them so what’s the flaw with the system, I long to learn.
sarah jane banks
May 20, 2014
Those listed as qualified on the vlp website are qualified by the same routes as those who choose to register as rsli with nrcpd.
so if an interprter meets the criteria to be rsli on nrcpd then they can become a qualified member of vlp.
From April 2015 vlp will only have qualified members. This is the final year where we are supporting trainees to become qualified.
Ramon Woolfe
May 20, 2014
Thanks Sarah but sorry it doesn’t really answer my question – 1. How and what makes an interpreter ‘qualified’ as many of the courses that I have seen for interpreters within NVQ allows candidates to resubmit evidence with short video clips and the assessors can ‘miss out’ them as they only select random candidates’ work – hey presto this person is qualified and can be employed as an interpreter at any situation – hence the failure of the system resulting in many interpreters performing under par. Many of them have expressed a ‘fear’ to work with me, is it because I can sense out their actual abilities? The system needs a shake up and it starts with an official body such as the OFCOM.
Even so there are many organisations who are happy to employ interpreters and translators without any qualifications – You know who you are 😉
Soph
May 20, 2014
I’m really hoping that the recent union for interpreters (www.nubsli.com) will be able to start lobbying for public money for interpreters to only be spent on interpreters.
It would be useful to have an investigation to see how much public money is actually being taken by the agencies and how much is being paid to the interpreters.
Yesterday I was asked by two different agencies to do the same job over two days. Agency A asked me to work for half my normal fee because they were ‘following an AtW budget’ (which didn’t exist when I asked but they said they were following a ‘model’ of one) but had to take into account all of their ‘costings’- in other words- they still had to make a profit for themselves.
When I explained to agency A I simply couldn’t afford to work for half price, the other agency, Agency B, meanwhile asked me to just work one day as they didn’t need an interpreter for both days now. I replied, saying I would, then got a response from BOTH agencies saying another interpreter(s) had now been allocated the jobs. It felt like a circus.
It just seems that there is no transparency, no honesty, and just too many people booking interpreters through agencies without being allowed in some cases to go direct. And the situation becomes more baffling where we just don’t know how many people are masking themselves as interpreters when they have no qualifications, but are doing well at undercutting the professionals.
I love interpreting, I have a deep passion for sign language and working with the deaf community, but it’s becoming more and more disheartening to work in a profession where I constantly have to justify myself and my earnings, and be made to feel like a pawn in a game of ‘which communication professional will earn the agency the most money’.
I’m really hoping for change, as if not, it will really be time to rethink how much longer I can stay in this profession. And I know I’m not the only interpreter thinking like this.
Sarah Jane Banks
May 20, 2014
I have seen many agency quotes and invoices to clients with extortionate fees charged. These are from agencies who charge an inclusive fee, so admin charges are not listed separately. I know one agency charged for 2 interpreters at £1500 for the day! Another charged £250 for a 1 hour hospital appointment. My fees are akin to what Jen states in the article and have not increased in 5 years – in fact many agencies are telling us that cuts mean we have to take a cut on that. In many cases these same agencies are telling us they cannot increase payments for specialist work (mental health/legal) because of contract constraints. Can anyone else smell a hint of cow manure?
Regarding choice of interpreters especially in medical settings Deaf People can request particular interpreters by name – ask whoever is doing the booking at the hospital/GP surgery to request your preferred Interpreter when they make the booking. Also inform the agency directly that you have made this request and tell the interpreter that you have requested them – I have seen this work effectively for Deaf patients previously. Not always- but can increase the chances of you receiving the standard of interpretation you prefer.
Linda Richards
May 20, 2014
I recently learned that the body responsible for providing interpreters at the PIP assessments (replacing DLA) is The Big Word. The reason the contract is with The Big Word is because all the interpreters have “an extra layer of security” called BPS – Baseline Personal Standard. The organisation involved (SALUS) which has a contract with The Big Word say this is well above the level of DBS (CRB) and that’s why the contract is with The Big Word. I’ve never heard of BPS and asked other interpreters but none of them knew about this and certainly didn’t have this level of ‘clearance’. Are there any interpreters or agencies who know about this, have this or have worked for The Big Word at PIP assessments and who have or do not have this BPS? The biggest concern for the Deaf people present at this information event was that they wouldn’t know or understand the interpreter who might be booked. The Deaf people were told they could bring their own but SALUS would not pay for them because …. Yup, you’ve got it … “They have a contract with The Big Word”. I did explain that The Big Word don’t have their own BSL/English interpreters and that they subcontract agencies which means two mark-ups are being added to the bill. Sigh. So, anyone know or can explain about BPS, what it is and how an interpreter gets this? Or is it just The Big Word’s own creation? (I haven’t googled or checked any of this stuff yet but any information from others would be both interesting and helpful to know about).
Matt Brown
May 20, 2014
Hi Linda – could it be BPSS (Baseline Personal Security Standard)? http://www.backcheck.co.uk/HMG-baseline-personnel-security-standard.htm –
looks similar to the hoops one well known provider made people jump through last year – more focused on weeding out illegal immigrants working in this country (something that might arise more frequently in the domain of spoken language interpreting) than on “clearance” per se.
Big Word have “exclusive” contracts with many public services and some entire local authorities. They have the honour of being the first agency I ever blacklisted.
Linda Richards
May 21, 2014
Thanks Matt … Yes, that’s the one. The question still remains… Has any BSL/English interpreter got this in order to be working at the PIP assessments via The Big Word?
Soph
May 20, 2014
It pays to be unqualified- this job includes holiday pay!!
And of COURSE it’s been outsourced to Capita. Of course.
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/communication-support-worker-bsl-l3/24897694#/jobs/language/sign-language
Kal Newby
May 20, 2014
There is another way to source interpreters: bslbeam.co.uk is an LSP (Language Service Professional) management system. You can advertise for interpreters (and lip speakers/notetakers), see interpreter availability, automatically send booking and rejection emails, and complete your Access to Work forms. Deaf people pay a monthly fee (£50 per user, which has been reclaimed via AtW by some people) which allows them to post their interpreting requirements on the site and be matched with available interpreters. It is a closed site so only interpreters are able to see the bookings. All the interpreter members of BSL Beam are NRCPD Registered. Interpreters login periodically to update their availability; they can look at the jobs listed and reply with quotes for the work or request further information to help them decide if it’s an appropriate booking for them. I think it’s a really useful middle ground between doing all the work yourself and paying a much higher premium for an agency to do all the work for you. It’s particularly useful because it has the completion of AtW forms built into the system.
Monkey Magic
May 20, 2014
Nope, I’ve never heard of BPS either.
I think (some) agencies seem to forget that they need interpreters. Without them they don’t actually have a business. If they push fees down to the point where there is no point in going to work then how does that agency gain anyway? Yes, they can use underqualified people but there’s a lot of risk in doing that and given the current mood I am sure it won’t be long before some poor stage 2 BSL learner (who was ‘only trying to help’ or who was made to feel guilty for saying ‘no’) will be made an example of. Of course I am sure the agency will let them take all the flack too. Interpreters registered with NRCPD are also trade marked as ‘sign safe’.
I have become really quite selective about who I will work for. That’s for a number of reasons but in particular because I am fed up of being branded ‘expensive’ when in reality I am being paid far less than the agency. Did they spend 10 years training to sending out confirmations and make some phone calls?? I do not think so! I was really horrified, some years ago, when I accepted an ATW booking through a spoken language agency (who picked up the odd BSL booking) only to be challenged by the deaf person’s manager, in the lift, on the way out. It appeared that ATW would only fund this lady about 2 or 3 times a year! And that didn’t stretch far because I was ‘so expensive’. I asked the manager if they would not mind sharing, with me, what the booking was costing. Because, as Jen mentioned, this agency were the preferred provider of the organisation they had to use them and it was costing £500!! I explained that I would be earning less than a 1/3 of that (including travel). I have never worked for that agency again.
Jen has listed the consortium sites that have been set up by interpreters for a number of different motivations. They are not agencies as there are no booking fees involved there. However one agency I would add is FirstPoint in Surrey (previously SIA). They’re a CIC and they are a great example of an agency that charge a reasonable booking fee and also pay interpreters the going rate and 45ppm (unless its ATW) and they pay within 30 days. However, their booking fee is proportionately appropriate and they recognise the importance of using real interpreters and remunerating them appropriately.
Monkey Magic
May 20, 2014
Ah! I got distracted and didn’t finish my comment about NRCPD registered interpreters being trade marked. Now there is a way into trading standards this route should be used more. I’m looking forward to Matt Alright turning up and challenging cowboy interpreters instead of builders for a change!!
Anon
May 20, 2014
It is not only agencies that are behaving badly, its freelancers too. Receptionist/nurse etc at hospitals will not book interpreters directly they always go through an agency. Its policy they claim. Its stupid because much of the wasted fund that goes on ‘fresh air’ could be used to provide other treatments essential to health and wellbeing, that they claim they cannot afford.
Sadaqat Ali
May 20, 2014
The issue describes above isn’t a one off- we hear about similar cases every day. In fact, two years ago, I encountered this very problem with the interpreting industry when a friend of ours almost died in hospital due to an agency being closed and not responding to out of hours emergencies. We realised that it needed to be stopped. We founded http://www.lingoing.com- a kind of trip advisor for the interpreting world, to encourage ethical practise between agencies, translators and deaf people. We want processes to be transparent, we want people who use the services to be involved and we want people on the ground to be empowered and have choice.
We need to act together to solves these problems for our community. This is the only way to solve this. It should be fair rates of pay for interpreters and it should be fair for agencies to charge reasonable management costs, but they shouldn’t be using the sector as a cash cow.
Please add http://www.lingoing.com to the list!
Onwards,
Sadaqat, CEO of Lingoing.
Michael S
May 20, 2014
I completely understand why you have that opinion from your point of view Jen. Having said that, this article does seem to tar all agencies with the same brush and put the onus on them being the bay guys – and certainly from my standpoint as a deaf services provider, this is categorically not the case.
I can only talk about it from the point of view for the Communication Support Agency I work for, and we do invest most of the revenue we make back into the business for sales and marketing to ensure we get regular bookings for our interpreters. It’s not a case of using the money to get rich, a business needs healthy cashflow to increase the value to it’s customers – both interpreters and deaf people. If agencies were on the breadline, how could you expect to be called upon regularly for exciting opportunities, or for them not to be walking a tightrope where they could be out of business next week?
We do take pride in our reputation within the industry, and that’s because we get the best people for the deaf clients/business clients we have and we do not want money to get in the way of that from our part. We make sacrifices on margins sometimes to ensure we get the job filled with the right person for it, but we also have occasions when interpreters are unwilling to work for a reasonable amount and are not willing to make sacrifices.
I think an approach of understanding and empathy from both parties, rather than vilifying and denigrating is needed moving forward.
Soph
May 20, 2014
What’s the name of your agency? Sure many would like to work with you guys!
Cosmic Doll
May 20, 2014
Also http://www.itiss.co.uk for Scottish freelancers 🙂
Anne
May 20, 2014
Kent Interpreters – http://www.kentinterpreters.co.uk
Natalya D
May 20, 2014
Booking comms support is hard both as a user and as someone responsible for supporting disabled and deaf students. The issue is TIME to deal with bookings and finding someone often at random times.
It isn’t my job as a disabled students’ adviser to book terps for students but I have done it on occasion and I hate it. It takes hours. Some agencies are complete arses and will lie to you, ignore emails, give no progress reports on finding people and then suddenly bill you for a terp you never expected them to find cos they’d not responded. Some insist on phones which makes me LAUGH. I only ever do terp arranging when it’s last minute cos it is absolutely not my job.
I haven’t even got as far as whatever the agencies I like are charging and paying the terps. I know we’ve started using some agencies less cos we hear that the terps are badly treated or not paid properly and stuff but we don’t really “worry” too much about cost cos we need someone else to take on the job of mass bookings for university classes and timetable.
What we tend to do with students using any comms support is set them up with an agency (if they have a choice and costs aren’t silly then student choice is absolutely respected) and make sure the agency know what the funding situation is and then try and get the basic timetable covered and ensure the student knows what hours they’re entitled to and get the student to let the agency know directly when they need extra/non-standard hours. We avoid being the “middleman” where possible cos we don’t have the resourcing to manage that cos there’s 149 other students to deal with at the same time.
From a personal perspective I will often use an agency when I’m low on time or getting a third-party to book communication support for me. I have a preferred agency for third-party and a template for explaining what I need, why I need it, what it isn’t and that I recommend they use the agency I name.
Going via the STTR operators’ agency is great but does take a bit more time and negotiation and I’d rather the agency handled payments than my employer have to bother with it cos payment to non standard orgs is a total pain.
I wonder if there is scope for deaf people putting pressure on agencies to be transparent about what they charge and what a terp is paid at the other end. I may also start asking if terps/comms support people will tell me when I get the chance. I have an opportunity to ask this sort of thing soon.
As for feedback on quality of comms support, I absolutely agree we need to support one another in saying yes or no to different people. I am quite new to consistent STTR support but I am making notes to try and work out what I do and don’t like, learning how to ask the STTR ops to do things I like and where I have a preference work out when I can contact people directly to book them, or ask an agency to book X or Y if possible.
I don’t think anyone thinks NRCPD registration is worth a damn other than arse-covering. I know a lot of deaf people and professionals unhappy with them taking money for what doesn’t seem to make either side happy. I wonder if there is a way for deaf people and our communication support professionals to have bodies working for us which meet all of our needs. The right of deaf people to have high quality, professional, ethical communications support and the right of communications professionals to be paid properly and on time, treated ethically, and supported in their profession so the good ones remain and the less good ones don’t…
saltbar
May 20, 2014
Wouldn’t it be nice to have the option to add BSL in the comments so the debate can encompass all parties concerned.
Deaf Umbrella
May 21, 2014
As I mentioned on the e-newsli forum yesterday, when this article was also discussed, even without the “naming and shaming” suggested by some, I think many of us are aware of agencies (particularly the larger ones?) who are not BSL specialists and therefore have little idea of the sometimes subtle yet important differences between qualifications and skills sets that result in a Level 2 Signer being sent to a mental health booking etc….
However, I would just like to make the point that there is good and bad in every walk of life and profession. Some agencies go to great lengths to ensure that they have appropriate booking information, can send a Signer with the right level of qualification to a client and closely monitor their staff to ensure a “good job, well done”. The article in question talks a great deal about freelance staff; many staff choose to work for an agency precisely because they do not wish to be self employed. The world of PAYE is better suited to some people’s personal circumstances.
Fully qualified Interpreters are made, not born. They need a structured career path whilst they train, something that can give them relevant positive experiences, strategies to cope with the jobs which inevitably will sometimes go wrong for any number of reasons, rules, boundaries, constructive criticism, guidance and feedback – surely a good agency which provides these things has a place in the provision of sign language support?
Please do not tar us all with the same brush – whilst there are agencies in the field providing a less than satisfactory service, some of us are extremely proud of the service we provide, work hard to ensure it is a premium product and care deeply about the end user ie our deaf clients.
rpopmpl
May 21, 2014
Why dont you, the interpreters, set up your own agency as a co-op? Every interpreter would part own the business. You would be cheaper than most agencies I hope (because you cash less commission fees), and your own fees would be higher. The only thing you would need ot do, is to group together, higher someone to design a website (or someone of you sets up a website yourself) and some admin people to do the scheduling work. The admin people could even be members of the co-op themselves so they would get parts of the profits.
QOBF
May 21, 2014
I believe these agencies who send unsuitable interpreters to make profit are non-deaf company.
We need the BSL interpreter book via from Deaf agencies (social enterprise approach) as local as possible…….. (who may be able to ‘provides these …… provision of sign language support’ and local Deaf awareness) mainly because they empathise how important to match the communication skills between the interpreter and Deaf people. Also understand the local sign/jargons dialect. Not only this, we could report to these “deaf’ agencies if they seen irregular practice within their community such as so-called interpreter breaching their code or ethic/practice. (Hearing people who don’t have a clue of how interpreter work) and these ‘Deaf agencies and Deaf community can educate them the difference of types of interpreter profession/skills within certain assignment. (My employer once refuse to speak to my Stage 3 interpreter because she don’t have the currently NVQ6!)
In order to do this we need some kind of watchdog to overseen the interpreter profession and degrade them if accepting work beyond their agreed work-skills. We need a transparent and robust policy and procedure for reporting malpractice.
NRCDP don’t do enough to deals with malpractice or maladministration of ‘cowboy’ interpreter from working with vulnerable Deaf community.
In additional to this ‘deaf’ agencies, they could re-invent into local Deaf community services.
Until we success with the full BSL act, I don’t think we can impose the ‘so called interpreter’ from ‘cash for cow’ company or committed to provide high-performing interpreting.
Off my sign box!
Oh Dear
May 21, 2014
‘In one situation that I was told about, a deaf person booked an interpreter directly to do a job at the company that they worked at. The interpreter agreed, but the company already had a contract with an interpreting agency, so they had to go through them (even though there was nothing for the agency to do because the booking had already been agreed).’
Jen. This is a problem that is all too common. The argument lies between two camps. The current camp (government, all parties) do not see a problem with this kind of contract you’ve stated above. The other camp (free market economics, libertarian) believes this kind of contract you’ve stated above should be illegal.
The argument is a simple one, IMO. The right to exercise free will, freedom of labour market in maximising mobility within the labour market, freedom of consumer choices, etc. When two parties enter into a voluntary contract, they have that right to do so. However the contract IS between the two parties and should never be enforced on a third-party, who had nothing to do with the contract between the two parties.
The company and the agency are the two parties, The deaf person was the third-party. Why should the contract be enforced on the deaf person? If the company wanted to book an interpreter then the company is bound by the contract. The deaf person isn’t. When the deaf person book an interpreter, both are entering into a voluntary contract that has nothing to do with anyone else. The company would, as I image, sign the bill to proof that the deaf employee used an interpreter and the interpreter would bill the relevant payment agency (ATW).
Another situation is the labour market and recruitment consultants (RC). RC have contracts with various companies to provide workers. For example, if a job vacancy is available and the RC is task to find a worker, the RC charges the company £15 per hour and pay the worker £7. The RC would pocket £8 per hour. However a savvy person could go around to different companies to look for a job. When this savvy person finds a vacancy and wants the job, the company will refused because of the contract with the agency. Hence the contract is enforced on the savvy person, the third-party. The savvy person is savvy because one could under voluntary contract negotiate a better wage, for example £11 per hour (instead of £7) and the company would agree because they would save £4 per hour. (£15 – £11)
I am sure you know that disabled people, are often discriminated by the RC industry. Coupled with the fact that employers are wary of employing disabled people because of productivity issues. It would be a massive win win situation for disabled people and companies, if contracts are not enforced on third parties. Not to mention that if all the workers were free to negotiate, they all would earn higher wages than the minimum wages and ‘living wages’, hence no one has to watch politicians fighting among themselves about how much workers should earn.
Until then, this problem you outlined in your post won’t be solved and the agencies will continue taking money (limited public money) away from front-line services between deaf people and SL interpreters.
Hartmut
May 22, 2014
Providing an interpreting service has always been a struggle for the profession of sign language interpreters: What is the most efficient model of provision of he interpreting service? At what costs? What would be the most ideal model that satisfies both consumers, both hearing and deaf, and practitioners of the profession? How much should government be involved in this?
Sign language interpreting introduces an angle that is unknown t the public and governmental circles, even to the translators between two spoken languages.
Two fundamental precepts present themselves here: public service, even commensurated, or commercial enterprise that is controlled by market forces.
Deaf communities throughout the world subscribes to the notion of interpreters as a public service, now in need of appropriate compensation due to professionalization of the service. The professionalization has become necessary to assure quality of service and to enable equitable participation of deaf people in the country’s society.
Two basic models present themselves: 1) as a public service, and thus to be handled by government or by a non-governmental arrangement between Deaf community and interpreters; 2) as an affair of complete non-governmental business, most unlikely not regulated by a national government due to its size (here no-one in the government pays attention to what happens “out there” until a complaint surfaces),
There can be a hybrid of the two models.
In the US, we have both models. If a state (no federal/national government regulates the interpreting service nationwide) has a Commission of the Deaf, interpreting is usually a matter of this commission. Not every state of US has one, perhaps only a dozen ou of 50. How a state commission handles sign language interpreting varies from state to state.
In states where there is no governmental involvement in sign language interpreting, I am witnessing horror stories similarly to what you are reporting here plus more. It has just become a business against another business (some within the same city). Interpreting has merely become a matter of business to generate income for the business. Many interpreters working for a for-profit agency gradually lost their sense of community obligations. They must work enough hours to ensure payment of her salary and pays for administration of the agency.
Video-Relay (Interpreting) Services have introduced another problem in the sense that this service reinforces and interpreters working there grow to no longer seeing the service as a community service, but as a job with a steady income.
Now Interpreting is just a job. The attachment to Deaf community is slowly disappearing in many interpreters.
Jenny H
May 22, 2014
How sad that the sometimes shameless profiteering by a few for-profit BSL/English interpreting agencies is used against the whole industry. There are many not-for-profit organisations, including ours, which charge nothing like the fees mentioned in Jen’s article, and any ‘profit’ of course stays within our charity to support the needs of deaf people in other ways.
In addition, as I read the questions around just how much work agencies do in booking interpreters, I can think of two incidents just in the last month which highlight very clearly the extra mile (at no cost) a charity might go in the best interests of our local deaf community. .
The first involved a text for help I received at 7am one day from a woman in hospital who had suffered two panic attacks whilst being cared for by medical staff she couldn’t understand as they dealt with a whiplash injury she had sustained in a fall. We got an interpreter to her within the hour.
The second involved a man who was attending several appointments over a period of time to deal with an issue that he didn’t want to share with any interpreter he normally used. Together we tracked down an out-of-county interpreter for each appointment, which gave him complete reassurance. That option would never have been available to him without the personal relationship our charity has with all our deaf clients.
I agree with many of the comments that a real threat exists of interpreting now being seen as ‘just a job’. For many not-for-profit organisations, which exist solely to enable deaf people to manage their lives independently and not to exploit them for financial reward, the solution is surely that we join forces and make a stand.
Deaf Umbrella
May 23, 2014
bit.ly/GMHy8Z
We published this article on our WordPress blog a while ago…. you may be interested to read it? It does highlight some of the poor practice we are all up against. Again, I would ask that you do not tar all agencies with the same brush!
Marie Dimond
December 9, 2014
http://Www.staffordshirebslinterpreters.co.uk
Thank you for raising such an important issue. One that particularly affects our community.