BSL interview: Gavin Lilley tells us about creating a new sign language for Prime’s The Wheel of Time (BSL)

Scroll down for the English transcript!

English transcript:

Gavin:
Hi! I’m Gavin Lilley, this is my sign name (Star Trek hand position) as I’m a huge fan of Star Trek! I work as a BSL teacher and deliver interpreter training workshops which I’ve done for the past 20 years. You can see I’ve lost my hair because of it! I also work in stand up comedy and TV presenting. I love the variety of work that I do.

Rebecca:
So today we are here to talk about The Wheel of Time. It’s the second series from Amazon Studios which is on Prime Video. Can you tell us about your role in this series, what was it?

Gavin:
I worked with Amazon on the second Wheel of Time series as their sign language consultant. I supported the actors and crew throughout filming as they have sign language in the story. So my role involved training the actors and developing new sign language.

Rebecca:
Ah okay so we know this is the second series for Amazon studios released on Prime Video. Were you able to watch an early release?

Gavin:
No sadly I have to watch the end
result the same time as everyone else!

Rebecca:
So no early viewing for you?

Gavin:
Sadly not!

Rebecca:
It was released 1st September on Prime.

Gavin:
Yes every week it released a new episode and I think in total there’s ten episodes so we have some great viewing to watch during the cold winter weeks!

Rebecca:
Oh lovely, perfect with a hot cup of tea!

Gavin:
Yes and candles!

Rebecca:
Nice! So the series is based on a book, one of the best selling fantasy books. I’ve not seen the series but I know there’s lots of mythical and magical elements. So can you tell us about your experience and your role in this?

Gavin:
My role in this was sign language consultant. There are lots of books in the Wheel of Time, it’s such a rich detailed story that has lots of action but it’s centred around the skills of dragon magic.

There are lots of different tribes within the story who go to war and different races. One is led by a woman warrior tribe called Aiel- they are skilled at fighting in battle with spears and the like. They are all hearing characters but they have their own sign language called Hand Talk. This is what was written in the book.

The producers obviously had to consider how they could develop this type of language. They did the right thing by asking deaf organisations and people and I was asked to work with them.

Rebecca:
Why do this tribe have Hand Talk? Is it so they can communicate in silence? What’s the benefit to them?

Gavin:
Many benefits! During battle, if they are too far away to be heard or if they don’t want the enemy to hear. They can also sign privately to avoid people knowing what they’re talking about. There’s lots of humours and banter involved too.

Rebecca:
I’m assuming you worked with actors who have never signed before? How did you start the process of teaching?

Gavin:
The actors had finished season 1 which doesn’t have any sign language in. When they realised they needed sign they firstly contacted the University College in London – DCAL who are experts in linguistics and deafness.

DCAL recommended me as someone who could help them develop a language for a fantasy series as I’m personally a huge fan of these types of movies and I’m also a BSL teacher. So this was really a dream role for me!

There were lots of meetings to begin with as we had to develop a brand new language. I didn’t want to be like some films that use ASL even though realistically it’s set in a different world – I knew this had to be a unique language.

So I started to develop a glossary of vocabulary and then worked with the actors, training and polishing them! They had to look like they’d signed all their lives not as though they’d recently learnt it. It was a challenge but I really enjoyed it!

Rebecca:
Personally I’d find it hard to create a new sign, I’d be so influenced by BSL or ASL. How did you ensure the signs were unique?

Gavin:
Luckily I know several sign languages and I’m also a keen traveller so I meet lots of different people who inspire me. Finnish, Estonian, German, Dutch, Japanese, American, British! So I often used a mix or a combination of influences.

For example the sign for Aeil – I used this three fingered hand shape. I created this as this particular tribe believe in a three fold land so the concept of three in one was important to the meaning.

It is also specific to the group of women warriors as the shape relates to the shape of the spear which they use in battle.

I worked with the dialect coach to understand the old fantasy language and have a great understanding of the words so the signs can be representative of the true meaning. Often I’d be thinking about this at 2am in the morning!

Rebecca:
Did you do this alone or were there any other deaf eyes to bounce ideas off?

Gavin:
I worked alone but of course I had interpreters with me. My role was to develop the signs but I could use feedback from the interpreter and dialect coach to gauge whether the sign worked with how the word was spoken.

The dialect coach worked well with me, they didn’t know BSL but we could actually communicate using this fantasy sign language! (Laughs)

Rebecca:
Do you have any memorable moments from the time of filming?

Gavin:
It’s hard to explain the world the wheel of time is set in, it goes back in time and almost feels like being on another planet! The make up and costume used made me feel like I was in a dream.

Rebecca:
As you created new sign language for the story, can you give us a few examples of what you created?

Gavin:
We developed 200-300 signs for this, of course I don’t have time to show you all of them but I can show you a few. The first one is the sign for enemy.

I was inspired by BSL here using the pinky finger as this usually means a negative term when it’s being used. Similar to how we sign “person” I changed it so it becomes a “bad person.” So if the character is in battle and they see the sign being used they know to look out.

If we then turned this sign down it becomes a way of saying they have been insulted, perhaps sworn at. So we have “enemy” and then “insult.” I like that and BSL inspired it.

Another sign we created is one for a group of people called Wetlander. The sign signifies the land and how it’s wet underneath. You can see it being used to refer to those people or even as enemies with the previous sign. Lots of different signs inspired me!

Another example is a sign we created to say we can hear something approaching or something nearby. This sign is similar to the international sign for hearing. So I turned this round to an outward position to show where someone picks up an approaching sound from.

Rebecca:
Wow, so as you already know so many sign languages you’ve been inspired in so many ways as well as working visually – you have lots of tools!

Gavin:
Yes it’s an amalgamation of tools I use to create the perfect recipe!

Rebecca:
Did you struggle to create a sign for anything in particular?

Gavin:
Oh yes. One role was that of a blacksmith. The usual sign for blacksmith signifies someone who works with metal, hammering on it with a tool.

However it became clear from the book that the blacksmith is a person with incredible power and was highly respected. Nobody can go into battle without the blacksmith.

He gives everyone the power to fight so is really highly revered. Without him there are no weapons or tools to fight with. So I felt the sign must be equally significant.

After lots of discussion and thought I created this sign for blacksmith which shows all of the people drawing on one person. It looks like a powerful sign too.

Rebecca:
That’s so clever. Perhaps deaf people watching the show will take on your new signs!

Gavin:
(Laughs) I don’t want to change BSL!

Rebecca:
It’s been really interesting talking about your role. I’d love to see more of this in fantasy films so I hope you carry on working in this area.

Gavin:
Me too!

Find out more about the Wheel of Time and where to view it here.